I was forwarded an article about the original land dispute we were all aware of and how it has expanded to more land. The writer points out how the claim has to be bogus given certain facts surrounding the case.
One point was well made in that the company (6 Diamonds) claims to have paid $4M for property that Red Frog has the rights to (and has won 2 court cases regarding this property already). However, no taxes were paid to Panama's government on that sale... 10% or $400,000. If they did buy it, then they are guilty of tax evasion. If they didn't really buy it, then this would explain why the taxes have never been paid.
The fact that this claim has expanded from the original land that was in dispute concerns me, as our beach front lot is still ROP land and could conceivably be drawn into this or some other lawsuit. If the ROP situation is not resolved by this summer, we may have a decision to make.
Mick @ Lot 83
Friday, December 21, 2007
Saturday, December 15, 2007
Red Frog's December conference call fails to impress
In my opinion, there has never been any doubt as to the honesty and integrity of the "boys" of Red Frog. I have always gotten the feeling that they want this project to succeed, and that message was surely communicated in the latest conference call.
However, will combined problems of the strike, the mortgage "crisis" in the US and government corruption be too much to overcome? It certainly sounded like the timing of each affected the outcome of the others... that the financial partners were not coming to the table because of the strike delay... and the issue of ROP land turning out to be a bigger deal than originally thought.
Being an optimist about this project (and not really financially hurt by the strike delay, though our money is just sitting there earning nothing) I think perseverence will win out. But Joe's voice sounded tired and I am wondering how much more he can take.
The gist of the conference call was essentially what was said in the newsletter. The only really new thing was the fractional ownership option being introduced. It sounds like a good option for some of those people from whom I've heard that are having money problems and wonder if they should stay in. I don't think it will affect property values that much, if at all.
One thing I did notice was that Chris was not in attendance. At first I thought they were going to announce that he'd left the company. Happily, only his position has changed. I can only speculate that he was traveling, and this could have been the reason he did not participate in the call.
We will see if patience will win out!
However, will combined problems of the strike, the mortgage "crisis" in the US and government corruption be too much to overcome? It certainly sounded like the timing of each affected the outcome of the others... that the financial partners were not coming to the table because of the strike delay... and the issue of ROP land turning out to be a bigger deal than originally thought.
Being an optimist about this project (and not really financially hurt by the strike delay, though our money is just sitting there earning nothing) I think perseverence will win out. But Joe's voice sounded tired and I am wondering how much more he can take.
The gist of the conference call was essentially what was said in the newsletter. The only really new thing was the fractional ownership option being introduced. It sounds like a good option for some of those people from whom I've heard that are having money problems and wonder if they should stay in. I don't think it will affect property values that much, if at all.
One thing I did notice was that Chris was not in attendance. At first I thought they were going to announce that he'd left the company. Happily, only his position has changed. I can only speculate that he was traveling, and this could have been the reason he did not participate in the call.
We will see if patience will win out!
Tuesday, December 4, 2007
The new 30 day visa regulations
This month's Bocas Breeze has an excellent explanation of the latest visa regulations, how it got passed and why nobody, even in Panama, knew about it before it was law!
It also explains in great detail what is required of tourists with regard to paperwork... which seems cumbersome, to say the least.
Immigration began enforcing this new law with a bang by sending out undercover patrols stopping tourists and demanding proof of legal immigration status. Most tourists do not know that Panama requires everyone over 18 years of age to possess positive identification and all foreigners must carry a passport, tourist card, immigration visa, residency carnet, or cedula (national ID card). Immigration arrested some tourists while allowing others to retrieve their papers and gave others strict warnings to always carry their ìpapersî. Other tourists denied re-entry to Panama because immigration border guards felt they had left and returned too many times...
Another excerpt says:
...It is against the law to overstay your tourist visa in every country. You can be subject to arrest and deported back to your country of origin. (Oh yeah? Not in the US. We offer them amnesty!) If you do over stay your visa and are not caught all is forgiven if you go to Immigration before leaving Panama and pay a fine of $275 for overstaying by 12 months or $300 for more than 12 months. Immigration gives you a document to show Immigration officers at the airport or border so you are legally free to go and return after 72 hours...
Read the entire article here.
Mick @ Lot 83
It also explains in great detail what is required of tourists with regard to paperwork... which seems cumbersome, to say the least.
Immigration began enforcing this new law with a bang by sending out undercover patrols stopping tourists and demanding proof of legal immigration status. Most tourists do not know that Panama requires everyone over 18 years of age to possess positive identification and all foreigners must carry a passport, tourist card, immigration visa, residency carnet, or cedula (national ID card). Immigration arrested some tourists while allowing others to retrieve their papers and gave others strict warnings to always carry their ìpapersî. Other tourists denied re-entry to Panama because immigration border guards felt they had left and returned too many times...
Another excerpt says:
...It is against the law to overstay your tourist visa in every country. You can be subject to arrest and deported back to your country of origin. (Oh yeah? Not in the US. We offer them amnesty!) If you do over stay your visa and are not caught all is forgiven if you go to Immigration before leaving Panama and pay a fine of $275 for overstaying by 12 months or $300 for more than 12 months. Immigration gives you a document to show Immigration officers at the airport or border so you are legally free to go and return after 72 hours...
Read the entire article here.
Mick @ Lot 83
Wednesday, November 14, 2007
Red Frog Blog now open to anyone!
Since we weren't getting much participation, I decided to open the blog back up to the public and see where it takes us.
As Red Frog gears up for a January 1, 2008 resuming of work, several of the Northern California Red Frog owners have scheduled a get together in Marin County early in December. I'll post an update of what we discuss, if appropriate.
In the meantime, we are off to Hawaii for Thanksgiving (an expensive alternative to our Caribbean paradise!) where we are meeting friends and family at our Waikoloa Beach Resort luxury condominium! Gotta brush up on my surfing so I am ready for Panama when our villa is completed.
Mick @ Lot 83
As Red Frog gears up for a January 1, 2008 resuming of work, several of the Northern California Red Frog owners have scheduled a get together in Marin County early in December. I'll post an update of what we discuss, if appropriate.
In the meantime, we are off to Hawaii for Thanksgiving (an expensive alternative to our Caribbean paradise!) where we are meeting friends and family at our Waikoloa Beach Resort luxury condominium! Gotta brush up on my surfing so I am ready for Panama when our villa is completed.
Mick @ Lot 83
Monday, October 29, 2007
Once again... misreporting gets owners anxious and upset!
You may have read the recent posts on Ron's blog about the family that was evicted from their property by Suntracs. While some of the facts are correct, the issue has been taken totally out of context. Here is the note I got from Scott this morning:
I just responded to this same question from Bob Chirone and you can read my response to him below (which he asked if he could post to some blog and I consented).
But regarding your questions, Lot 13 is only framed up, no one is even close to living there. They were using this as an observation post. It was lot 34 that caused the problem and the owner was not living there – just a friend of his that was supervising the construction efforts of their own hired hands. The owner of 34 has been renting lot 48 which is where his family has been staying so no family has been evicted contrary to Ron’s overstated comments. Now, my comments to Bob…
Thank you for asking for clarification. Last week on a routine Suntracs inspection tour with the regional labor minister, the union was extremely upset to find that construction work was being done on a unit –specifically lot 34 – that we had already closed on (the owner was previously warned this construction would likely cause problems). Our feeling is that a current owner should be allowed to work on their home (since they had closed and had been issued a certificate of occupancy), but the labor union has the opposite view and was claiming that our construction company – Pillar Construction – was doing the work and that no construction work should be done, period.
Needless to say, our team of lawyers have been working on this case to get the illegal Suntracs workers off the project. I personally spent over an hour meeting with the Minister of Labor in Panama City, Minister Edwin Salamin, yesterday to get his support. He and his team of lawyers have been helpful in getting Suntracs out of the residential area (they were camped at 13 for one day – this home is only framed) and now off the entire property. By the way, my understanding is that only a friend of the owners was at the property when they were forced to shut down construction efforts. A family was not living there as Ron has reported. The police were there to make sure that this didn’t escalate into any violence like what has happened at Isla Viveros in the Pearl Islands.
But you can rest assured that we are working together to get this issue resolved and the bigger issue of getting the labor strike resolved once and for all. But as you can see from this example, they are not very reasonable people…
Mick @ Lot 83
I just responded to this same question from Bob Chirone and you can read my response to him below (which he asked if he could post to some blog and I consented).
But regarding your questions, Lot 13 is only framed up, no one is even close to living there. They were using this as an observation post. It was lot 34 that caused the problem and the owner was not living there – just a friend of his that was supervising the construction efforts of their own hired hands. The owner of 34 has been renting lot 48 which is where his family has been staying so no family has been evicted contrary to Ron’s overstated comments. Now, my comments to Bob…
Thank you for asking for clarification. Last week on a routine Suntracs inspection tour with the regional labor minister, the union was extremely upset to find that construction work was being done on a unit –specifically lot 34 – that we had already closed on (the owner was previously warned this construction would likely cause problems). Our feeling is that a current owner should be allowed to work on their home (since they had closed and had been issued a certificate of occupancy), but the labor union has the opposite view and was claiming that our construction company – Pillar Construction – was doing the work and that no construction work should be done, period.
Needless to say, our team of lawyers have been working on this case to get the illegal Suntracs workers off the project. I personally spent over an hour meeting with the Minister of Labor in Panama City, Minister Edwin Salamin, yesterday to get his support. He and his team of lawyers have been helpful in getting Suntracs out of the residential area (they were camped at 13 for one day – this home is only framed) and now off the entire property. By the way, my understanding is that only a friend of the owners was at the property when they were forced to shut down construction efforts. A family was not living there as Ron has reported. The police were there to make sure that this didn’t escalate into any violence like what has happened at Isla Viveros in the Pearl Islands.
But you can rest assured that we are working together to get this issue resolved and the bigger issue of getting the labor strike resolved once and for all. But as you can see from this example, they are not very reasonable people…
Mick @ Lot 83
Sunday, October 21, 2007
October Newsletter
Well, it's out. Does anyone have any thoughts? For myself, I thought it was more of the same. "Thanks for hanging in there... the strike's almost over..." When?????
Mick
Mick
Monday, September 17, 2007
Red Frog Update
Did everyone see the latest update from Scott?
If you did and didn't report it here then help us out, will you?
If you did and didn't report it here then help us out, will you?
Red Frog makes Sam's Blog!
Yesterday Sam posted a short article and some pictures from his trip to Red Frog. As you will see from the photos, the jungle has not overtaken the homes that have been started as was reported elsewhere.
Here's a link to the article and also a link to the photos.
It was suggested by Scott Harris's source in Panama that we owners post comments to Sam's story on his blog. Let me be the first!
Mick@ Lot 83
Here's a link to the article and also a link to the photos.
It was suggested by Scott Harris's source in Panama that we owners post comments to Sam's story on his blog. Let me be the first!
Mick@ Lot 83
Thursday, September 13, 2007
ANAM and Red Frog make the front page of La Prensa
A friend of mine has a nephew who lives in Panama wrote me a brief note this morning which said:
...front page of the newspaper yesterday announces that ANAM (the environmental protection agency) has fined Red Frog Beach Project $130,000 for their behavior with regards to the environment and ANAM rules and regulations. They are also laying out some guidelines for the future development, calling for a section of the project to be used for
reforestation, and up to 25 hectares to be devoted to green or undeveloped areas.
This apparently is OLD news from last year and one can only imagine why this showed up in Wednesday's paper. Once again I went to the source and asked Scott to respond:
The report on the meeting held on September 29 of 2006 analyzes and features a chart containing the project’s mitigation and control measures in order to verify compliance and the submittal of evidence from the data obtained from the inspection and follow-up report presented by the company, and documents the following possible non-performances:
...front page of the newspaper yesterday announces that ANAM (the environmental protection agency) has fined Red Frog Beach Project $130,000 for their behavior with regards to the environment and ANAM rules and regulations. They are also laying out some guidelines for the future development, calling for a section of the project to be used for
reforestation, and up to 25 hectares to be devoted to green or undeveloped areas.
This apparently is OLD news from last year and one can only imagine why this showed up in Wednesday's paper. Once again I went to the source and asked Scott to respond:
The report on the meeting held on September 29 of 2006 analyzes and features a chart containing the project’s mitigation and control measures in order to verify compliance and the submittal of evidence from the data obtained from the inspection and follow-up report presented by the company, and documents the following possible non-performances:
- Verification of the 25-ha-conservation zone contemplated as a measure for compensating the felling that would result from the construction of the new infrastructure
- Domestic waste management: waste from workers’ food lied all over the soil of the project, and certain findings (animals’ tracks) lead to think that wild animals may be getting used to eating processed food
- The temporary solid waste dumping site was not adequate
- Collapsed sediment meshes
- The complex’s artificial lighting poses a risk to turtle nesting activities typical of the region
The Regional Environmental Administration of Bocas del Toro conducted another inspection on January 25 of 2007 at the request of the company through a proposal of evidence.
The Technical Report resulting from such inspection states that the non-performances are not generating findings and so there are no damages to the environment. Likewise, such report points out that the measures related to by-pass channels and temporary mounds of earth have been replaced by other more effective measures intended to contain sedimentation, as is the case of geotextile mesh barriers, which invalidate the deshredding force of rain impact on removed soil, covering them with plastics. The report also indicates that stake-supported barriers composed of hay bales and meshes were placed in construction areas, intended to control flow of sediments to the natural drain lines existing in the project area. The report concludes that the developer has been able to reduce sediment contamination of sea.
So clearly we are doing our best to protect the environment. While our guys aren’t perfect by any means, they really do a pretty good job. ANAM has just been trying to find other issues. In fact, instead of saying do this or do that to protect the environment, they basically are asking for Plans, reports, and monitoring programs, that’s it!
And I don't know if saw it but there was another article in the newspaper where Mr. Milciades Concepción, Chairman in the assembly for Environmental Matters, made some comments regarding ANAM being irresponsible and unprofessional in most of the cases. Obviously Ligia Castro (head of Catastro) came out to defend ANAM. Milciades is without a doubt referring to the Red Frog issue.
So there you have it, we will appeal the fine and keep on protecting the environment which is what we want to do.
- Scott Harris
Monday, September 10, 2007
Want rumors? Here are some GREAT ones!
Rumor 1: All the rumors about Red Frog being financially unsound are being started by several people who already own property on the island and have villas built. They want to be sure they have the island to themselves, so they are spreading rumors so the project will fail. I know of one person who has made contingency plans to become self sufficient for about $50K, so that's why I know this is what's going on. Once Red Frog files bankruptcy and moves out, the property can be picked up for a song and the current residents can have their own sprawling estates at our expense!
Rumor 2: Wait! No, that 's not the story. Red Frog is spreading the rumors themselves so we all bail out, and then when the strike is over, they will be able to sell the lots and villas back at much higher market rates thus making even more money!
Those are pretty good, but how about this? NONE OF THEM ARE TRUE!
Scott is getting tired (as am I) of going over the same issues again and again. Here are his responses below one last time. Questions are from Jake's Red Frog Beach Forum. His responses are in CAPS below:
"...reports that there were 3 investor-types on the grounds with some of the RFB principals the other day. So they're working on it!" TRUE BUT NO MYSTERY HERE, JUST AS EXPLAINED IN THE NEWSLETTER, WE HAVE MANY VERY INTERESTED PARTIES AND WE ARE WORKING WITH THEM ALL TO DECIDE WHO WE ULTIMATELY WANT TO USE...
"...one of the posters says they have significant debt, unlike what we've been told. He used the term "severe cash crisis." WE HAVE LESS THAN 10% DEBT TO EQUITY SO THIS INFORMATION IS FALSE...
"Scott says they're not out of money; maybe he's just answering the question literally. I've also heard stories that they're not maintaining the villas that are under construction and vines are growing all over them and the mold is a real problem and isn't being taken care of because of the cost cutting." NOT TRUE ONCE AGAIN, WE HAVE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND WHO ARE IN CHARGE OF MAINTAINING THE VILLAS. ANY MOLD ISSUES THAT COME UP WILL BE REPLACED AS EVERYONE HAS A WARRANTY...
So what does this tell you? Either Red Frog is lying... If so, then why even ask them what's going on? If Red Frog isn't lying, then others are. And if anyone wants to believe either of the other 2 rumors I posted above, feel free to use them as your own. As for me, I want them to get back to work and finish my villa so I can spend some quality time on the Caribbean!
Rumor 2: Wait! No, that 's not the story. Red Frog is spreading the rumors themselves so we all bail out, and then when the strike is over, they will be able to sell the lots and villas back at much higher market rates thus making even more money!
Those are pretty good, but how about this? NONE OF THEM ARE TRUE!
Scott is getting tired (as am I) of going over the same issues again and again. Here are his responses below one last time. Questions are from Jake's Red Frog Beach Forum. His responses are in CAPS below:
"...reports that there were 3 investor-types on the grounds with some of the RFB principals the other day. So they're working on it!" TRUE BUT NO MYSTERY HERE, JUST AS EXPLAINED IN THE NEWSLETTER, WE HAVE MANY VERY INTERESTED PARTIES AND WE ARE WORKING WITH THEM ALL TO DECIDE WHO WE ULTIMATELY WANT TO USE...
"...one of the posters says they have significant debt, unlike what we've been told. He used the term "severe cash crisis." WE HAVE LESS THAN 10% DEBT TO EQUITY SO THIS INFORMATION IS FALSE...
"Scott says they're not out of money; maybe he's just answering the question literally. I've also heard stories that they're not maintaining the villas that are under construction and vines are growing all over them and the mold is a real problem and isn't being taken care of because of the cost cutting." NOT TRUE ONCE AGAIN, WE HAVE PEOPLE ON THE GROUND WHO ARE IN CHARGE OF MAINTAINING THE VILLAS. ANY MOLD ISSUES THAT COME UP WILL BE REPLACED AS EVERYONE HAS A WARRANTY...
So what does this tell you? Either Red Frog is lying... If so, then why even ask them what's going on? If Red Frog isn't lying, then others are. And if anyone wants to believe either of the other 2 rumors I posted above, feel free to use them as your own. As for me, I want them to get back to work and finish my villa so I can spend some quality time on the Caribbean!
Sunday, September 9, 2007
Closing down the blog
Everyone,
It's been a good ride, but it seems that Jake's Red Frog Beach Forum is the preferred place to speculate and spread rumors, so I am going back to my day job!
I only started this forum because there were so many stories going around after Ron closed his blog that I wanted to get the information out. But it seems people like to live in high drama around the Red Frog Project on the other blog; I'm just not one of them.
Either I am in or I am out. Right now I am in and supporting the project! We all have a lot to lose if the project fails, and I am not going to help it do so by spreading rumors, speculations or lies.
So for that reason, I'm closing up shop effective tomorrow evening. Thanks for all of you who participated.
Mick @ Lot 83
It's been a good ride, but it seems that Jake's Red Frog Beach Forum is the preferred place to speculate and spread rumors, so I am going back to my day job!
I only started this forum because there were so many stories going around after Ron closed his blog that I wanted to get the information out. But it seems people like to live in high drama around the Red Frog Project on the other blog; I'm just not one of them.
Either I am in or I am out. Right now I am in and supporting the project! We all have a lot to lose if the project fails, and I am not going to help it do so by spreading rumors, speculations or lies.
So for that reason, I'm closing up shop effective tomorrow evening. Thanks for all of you who participated.
Mick @ Lot 83
Saturday, September 8, 2007
September 2007 Newsletter
Well, folks, what do you think? My personal assessment was that it could have been more detailed and given an estimate of when the strike will be over, but it was more informative than the last conference call! Here are my thoughts:
Alliances:
GOOD! They need a construction partner, and I see the fact that a US based company wanting to get in the mix is a good sign. I am going to do more investigation on the Gates construction company, but I take this as a positive step.
Of course, if you read the blog regularly, you know how I feel about the alliance with Sam Taliaferro and Paul McBride of Prima Panama. I think this is a wise step and may have had something to do with the decision to bring in another construction parter.
After my last post about my Paul McBride call, but they were scheduled to have another conference call later in that week with Red Frog. I have not heard how that went, though I did get a voice mail from Sam. We have yet to connect.
I was told after their trip to Red Frog that something would be posted about it on their Prima Panama Blog. I have seen nothing yet.
Rumors:
Rumors... we have tried to dispel some of them here, but the latest ones on Red Frog Beach Forum are just malicious. Packing up hard drives and shipping them back to the US? They moved offices in Bocas, and Scott shipped home a hard drive with contracts on it to avoid shipping the whole computer!
I suggest anyone with concerns e-mail Scott Harris first. If you don't want to submit your question directly for some reason, send it to me and I will pose it as my own.
Bocas Notes:
I have a nephew of a good friend whose parents own a resort on the Pacific side of Panama called Mangofish Resort and is now for sale with a price tag of $10M. He visited Red Frog before construction began and was offered some of the land before Joe and the boys purchased. He has some strong ideas about what is going on and will be in Bocas for the festival. Perhaps I can get him to share his thoughts when he gets back.
Client Corner:
As hint at, only a certain amount of work can be done to maintain the structures before it is considered contruction. Paul McBride said they have a crew that is busy "beating back the rain forest" which, as you know if you have seen the sprouting fence posts, can be pervasive.
Legal and Financial:
Sounds like the strike is nearing an end, but they always try and make it sound like that. At least this time the ROP issue was addressed. What they said here is exactly what they reported to me in an e-mail, so I believe it is the government that is holding up this process.
The land dispute becomes clearer now. It was my belief from the beginning that Red Frog being sued in the US seemed odd. I'm glad they took the time to explain this incident a little better. Hopefully we will prevail, but with the current judicial system, who knows? And it means more money that can not be spent on construction.
I spoke in an earlier post about the Florida bank who has visited Red Frog to hopefully provide more traditional financing as we find here in the US. That would put some of the current home owners at ease as they go into the final phases of construction.
I am looking forward to my next trip to Panama and intend on making EJ show me the new "secret spot" next time I'm there. As soon as Janis gets her passport, I want to book a trip so we can see the project first hand and stay in a Tortuga... the model we "reserved" for our beach front lot.
Your comments?
Mick @ Lot 83
Alliances:
GOOD! They need a construction partner, and I see the fact that a US based company wanting to get in the mix is a good sign. I am going to do more investigation on the Gates construction company, but I take this as a positive step.
Of course, if you read the blog regularly, you know how I feel about the alliance with Sam Taliaferro and Paul McBride of Prima Panama. I think this is a wise step and may have had something to do with the decision to bring in another construction parter.
After my last post about my Paul McBride call, but they were scheduled to have another conference call later in that week with Red Frog. I have not heard how that went, though I did get a voice mail from Sam. We have yet to connect.
I was told after their trip to Red Frog that something would be posted about it on their Prima Panama Blog. I have seen nothing yet.
Rumors:
Rumors... we have tried to dispel some of them here, but the latest ones on Red Frog Beach Forum are just malicious. Packing up hard drives and shipping them back to the US? They moved offices in Bocas, and Scott shipped home a hard drive with contracts on it to avoid shipping the whole computer!
I suggest anyone with concerns e-mail Scott Harris first. If you don't want to submit your question directly for some reason, send it to me and I will pose it as my own.
Bocas Notes:
I have a nephew of a good friend whose parents own a resort on the Pacific side of Panama called Mangofish Resort and is now for sale with a price tag of $10M. He visited Red Frog before construction began and was offered some of the land before Joe and the boys purchased. He has some strong ideas about what is going on and will be in Bocas for the festival. Perhaps I can get him to share his thoughts when he gets back.
Client Corner:
As hint at, only a certain amount of work can be done to maintain the structures before it is considered contruction. Paul McBride said they have a crew that is busy "beating back the rain forest" which, as you know if you have seen the sprouting fence posts, can be pervasive.
Legal and Financial:
Sounds like the strike is nearing an end, but they always try and make it sound like that. At least this time the ROP issue was addressed. What they said here is exactly what they reported to me in an e-mail, so I believe it is the government that is holding up this process.
The land dispute becomes clearer now. It was my belief from the beginning that Red Frog being sued in the US seemed odd. I'm glad they took the time to explain this incident a little better. Hopefully we will prevail, but with the current judicial system, who knows? And it means more money that can not be spent on construction.
I spoke in an earlier post about the Florida bank who has visited Red Frog to hopefully provide more traditional financing as we find here in the US. That would put some of the current home owners at ease as they go into the final phases of construction.
I am looking forward to my next trip to Panama and intend on making EJ show me the new "secret spot" next time I'm there. As soon as Janis gets her passport, I want to book a trip so we can see the project first hand and stay in a Tortuga... the model we "reserved" for our beach front lot.
Your comments?
Mick @ Lot 83
Sunday, September 2, 2007
More rumors put to rest
I have been in contact with a Bocas Realtor whose name I will keep confidential for now. He made some assertions about the Red Frog project that seemed like they needed to be responded to. Charges were made that there would not be enough water for our project and that this lack of resource had caused problems during contruction. So again I went to Red Frog and asked them to respond to the assertions. Here's the gist of it:
I don't want to bad mouth your investment, but there were problems from the onset. I met the first manager in Bocas for the project named Neil Sanders, when he first arrived in Bocas and we had a casual conversation. I had already been working here on a smaller project of mine for over a year and have lived and worked in the tropics before. I knew what difficulties they were facing in developing in a rain forest area with little or no infrastructure. Scott's reply: Neil turned out NOT to be the expert that he sold himself as.
One of the first things that caught my attention was the true lack of understanding in the original groundwork. For example, he said that each of the houses would have a pool. I asked what type of rain catchment system they were going to use? The answer was none! To build several hundred homes with a typical water consumption of 50 gallons per person per day (not including the pool) and to depend on the ground water in that area to supply this was probably not reasonable. If we had cachment system – we would have needed over 400,000 gallons of storage which would have required a massive investment in tanks and still we would have had poor water quality vs. 30,000 gallon storage tank with high quality ground water that we have obtained through ground well systems.
You probably don't know this, but I had walked that property a year before there was a sale to Red Frog and I had a pretty good idea what water supplies were there. One of the major limited forces of the Mayan Empire was water. The major water source for the project is to be the large spring on the property. I don't know if a hydrologist had ever been called in to give a true capacity reading on that spring. Scott's reply: He is right when he says that spring wouldn’t be enough. Hydrologists have determined the number of wells we will need as the project grows. And most of that water is coming through aquafurs from the mainland and under the water out to these islands.
The ownership of the spring was also in a dispute with the adjoining land owner, Teddy Bendiberg (who had some documents, not conclusive ones, but enough to not make Red Frog the owner either). He also had previous use rights to the springs and those I have for my Red Frog lots as well. Those rights may be enough to give him continued use of the springs (like an easement). This means Red Frog does not control the primary water source for the project. Scott's reply: Teddy claimed he bought these rights from the former owner who has always contested this claim - [as I explained above] we have total control of the water sources.
I also heard a water shortage shut the project down or at least curtailed many water dependent activities (concrete production) for a while this year. Scott's reply: Totally false.
I'm a biologist by trade and worked for the government in the Federated States of Micronesia. There I conducted Environmental Impact Studies and I have a good understanding of what puts the breaks on a studies approval (it seems to be similar in Panama). I remember this project being started without the EIS being completed (I don't know if that has anything to do with the withdrawal of the promised golf course from the project at this time). Every promise not met erodes the buyers' confidence in the project as you are well aware. Scott's reply: His project and ours started at the same time, yet he does not have a good enough understanding to get his approval after 3 years! Our first phases we started with temporary approvals, and we haven’t done anything in the EIS phase II area except securtity roads.
Also, I was at a meeting with the ministers Economy and Finance for Panama (who were in control of the Rights of Possession lands) when Red Frog came to them. I was in the meeting scheduled just before Red Frog. We were asking for the same thing they should have asked for from the beginning (a year before)..."can we definitively Title this land or not and what will the cost be?" We got no real answer except to go for a concession to be prepared if and when Titling occurs. The Solarte Project got themselves into trouble because of many things, but one of the biggies was to promise what they could not deliver. Today, you are aware they [SOLARTE] are in a class action lawsuit with the owners [of Red Frog], who may eventually take over the project from the developer (who knows). I believe Red Frog promised so much in its marketing campaign that they were NOT sure they could deliver and that has come back to bite them in some areas. Scott's reply: We never promised this only have said that we will work hard at obtaining all of our amenities and we have already been successful in step one of the titling process which was to lobby for law 2 – which we now have - and now can get it titled, just takes time. We ACT not talk.
I was also in the Red Frog project with other local realtor's once and one of the marketing team. They showed us a new Villa being completed (the first one) and the marketing guy said, "we had a little problem with this one. It was over engineered...too much steel in it, but we now have that under control for the next one". A project with this much capital had its architects "over engineer" the first house? That doesn't instill much confidence in the overall project. Scott's reply: When you start first few houses of a massive project there are variations that you can’t plan for until you begin including supply chain issues, soil, transport, etc. that you have to learn your way into the right design protocol.
So when I say we use them as an example I don't mean on every point. But I told the project I'm now working with that I could only sell their project if they got all of their permits, EIS, concessions done first so we know we can deliver what we promise. They have taken two years to get to the point where they can start to sell by doing this, but everyone I talk to about the project is very happy to hear that this will be done before they buy. As I said earlier, the EIS may be approved this week and the master plan is only waiting for that to occur to also be approved, I understand from the developers.
Red Frog was a huge under taking and its progress is not to be over looked, but I feel an equal amount of pre-planning (by experienced developers in the tropics...you may have had some and I may be talking out of my hat here) and marketing would have been a better. It has a great marketing organization! Scott's reply: His only correct statement.
I don't want to bad mouth your investment, but there were problems from the onset. I met the first manager in Bocas for the project named Neil Sanders, when he first arrived in Bocas and we had a casual conversation. I had already been working here on a smaller project of mine for over a year and have lived and worked in the tropics before. I knew what difficulties they were facing in developing in a rain forest area with little or no infrastructure. Scott's reply: Neil turned out NOT to be the expert that he sold himself as.
One of the first things that caught my attention was the true lack of understanding in the original groundwork. For example, he said that each of the houses would have a pool. I asked what type of rain catchment system they were going to use? The answer was none! To build several hundred homes with a typical water consumption of 50 gallons per person per day (not including the pool) and to depend on the ground water in that area to supply this was probably not reasonable. If we had cachment system – we would have needed over 400,000 gallons of storage which would have required a massive investment in tanks and still we would have had poor water quality vs. 30,000 gallon storage tank with high quality ground water that we have obtained through ground well systems.
You probably don't know this, but I had walked that property a year before there was a sale to Red Frog and I had a pretty good idea what water supplies were there. One of the major limited forces of the Mayan Empire was water. The major water source for the project is to be the large spring on the property. I don't know if a hydrologist had ever been called in to give a true capacity reading on that spring. Scott's reply: He is right when he says that spring wouldn’t be enough. Hydrologists have determined the number of wells we will need as the project grows. And most of that water is coming through aquafurs from the mainland and under the water out to these islands.
The ownership of the spring was also in a dispute with the adjoining land owner, Teddy Bendiberg (who had some documents, not conclusive ones, but enough to not make Red Frog the owner either). He also had previous use rights to the springs and those I have for my Red Frog lots as well. Those rights may be enough to give him continued use of the springs (like an easement). This means Red Frog does not control the primary water source for the project. Scott's reply: Teddy claimed he bought these rights from the former owner who has always contested this claim - [as I explained above] we have total control of the water sources.
I also heard a water shortage shut the project down or at least curtailed many water dependent activities (concrete production) for a while this year. Scott's reply: Totally false.
I'm a biologist by trade and worked for the government in the Federated States of Micronesia. There I conducted Environmental Impact Studies and I have a good understanding of what puts the breaks on a studies approval (it seems to be similar in Panama). I remember this project being started without the EIS being completed (I don't know if that has anything to do with the withdrawal of the promised golf course from the project at this time). Every promise not met erodes the buyers' confidence in the project as you are well aware. Scott's reply: His project and ours started at the same time, yet he does not have a good enough understanding to get his approval after 3 years! Our first phases we started with temporary approvals, and we haven’t done anything in the EIS phase II area except securtity roads.
Also, I was at a meeting with the ministers Economy and Finance for Panama (who were in control of the Rights of Possession lands) when Red Frog came to them. I was in the meeting scheduled just before Red Frog. We were asking for the same thing they should have asked for from the beginning (a year before)..."can we definitively Title this land or not and what will the cost be?" We got no real answer except to go for a concession to be prepared if and when Titling occurs. The Solarte Project got themselves into trouble because of many things, but one of the biggies was to promise what they could not deliver. Today, you are aware they [SOLARTE] are in a class action lawsuit with the owners [of Red Frog], who may eventually take over the project from the developer (who knows). I believe Red Frog promised so much in its marketing campaign that they were NOT sure they could deliver and that has come back to bite them in some areas. Scott's reply: We never promised this only have said that we will work hard at obtaining all of our amenities and we have already been successful in step one of the titling process which was to lobby for law 2 – which we now have - and now can get it titled, just takes time. We ACT not talk.
I was also in the Red Frog project with other local realtor's once and one of the marketing team. They showed us a new Villa being completed (the first one) and the marketing guy said, "we had a little problem with this one. It was over engineered...too much steel in it, but we now have that under control for the next one". A project with this much capital had its architects "over engineer" the first house? That doesn't instill much confidence in the overall project. Scott's reply: When you start first few houses of a massive project there are variations that you can’t plan for until you begin including supply chain issues, soil, transport, etc. that you have to learn your way into the right design protocol.
So when I say we use them as an example I don't mean on every point. But I told the project I'm now working with that I could only sell their project if they got all of their permits, EIS, concessions done first so we know we can deliver what we promise. They have taken two years to get to the point where they can start to sell by doing this, but everyone I talk to about the project is very happy to hear that this will be done before they buy. As I said earlier, the EIS may be approved this week and the master plan is only waiting for that to occur to also be approved, I understand from the developers.
Red Frog was a huge under taking and its progress is not to be over looked, but I feel an equal amount of pre-planning (by experienced developers in the tropics...you may have had some and I may be talking out of my hat here) and marketing would have been a better. It has a great marketing organization! Scott's reply: His only correct statement.
Taking a vote to open up the blog
I wanted to put it to a vote as to whether or not we open up the blog to outsiders. I am still on the fence about this due the negative posts by "users" such as 507 and the idiot environmentalist I had a run in with early on. But I wanted to run it by the rest of you. As it stands, if people find us, the page just says you have to log on to view, but does not tell people who to contact or how to get an account. So I want to hear from you whether or not we open it back up. You can e-mail me at micko@sfresidence.com or just post a comment on the blog. Thanks.
Mick @ Lot 83
Mick @ Lot 83
Saturday, September 1, 2007
Trying to stay positive...
It's getting hard, the longer this goes on. I decided because some people weren't playing by the rules, they had to go. I will not tolerate anyone posting anything that is negative when it is unsubstantiated and rumor, and especially when they do so anonymously. It puts all of us at risk.
Recently there have been some posts by a person who has decided to identify themselves as 507. They were allowed in by Ron along with some other users, so I removed all of them from the contributors' list. If they wish to get back on, they should first e-mail me and identify themselves and their property (interest in Red Frog). It is for the good of the group.
Regarding the latest post, comment to "Lots for Sale", I have asked Scott to send a response that I can post regarding these (as far as we know) rumors. As I noted on Friday, I had a conversation with Paul McBride who told me some corporate changes were in the works, but it was to get past the strike, correct the errors RFB made due to their ignorance of the "Panama way" of doing business, and get back to work. NOT because they were out of money. So until I hear otherwise, I believe this is totally untrue. And people who post this type of gossip anonymously are probably out to hurt the project. Therefore, I removed them from being able to contribute any more.
This is a caution to everyone to please send all requests through me, even though you can add users yourselves. So far everyone has played by the rules except for Ron and the users he set up. Thanks for letting me vent, but it has been a long several months of real estate headaches, not just in Panama, but with some of our other investments!
Be of good cheer, and let's hope the next newsletter and/or conference call yield some great news!
Mick @ Lot 83
Recently there have been some posts by a person who has decided to identify themselves as 507. They were allowed in by Ron along with some other users, so I removed all of them from the contributors' list. If they wish to get back on, they should first e-mail me and identify themselves and their property (interest in Red Frog). It is for the good of the group.
Regarding the latest post, comment to "Lots for Sale", I have asked Scott to send a response that I can post regarding these (as far as we know) rumors. As I noted on Friday, I had a conversation with Paul McBride who told me some corporate changes were in the works, but it was to get past the strike, correct the errors RFB made due to their ignorance of the "Panama way" of doing business, and get back to work. NOT because they were out of money. So until I hear otherwise, I believe this is totally untrue. And people who post this type of gossip anonymously are probably out to hurt the project. Therefore, I removed them from being able to contribute any more.
This is a caution to everyone to please send all requests through me, even though you can add users yourselves. So far everyone has played by the rules except for Ron and the users he set up. Thanks for letting me vent, but it has been a long several months of real estate headaches, not just in Panama, but with some of our other investments!
Be of good cheer, and let's hope the next newsletter and/or conference call yield some great news!
Mick @ Lot 83
Friday, August 31, 2007
My converstation with Paul McBride this morning
I got a call from Paul McBride, the CEO of Prima Panama, this morning because I have been having problems downloading the 2 hour audio of their Panama real estate investing symposium from their website. During the call he mentioned that he and Sam Talliaferro visited Red Frog along with some banking officials from Florida (who have been providing financing for Panamanians buying real estate in Florida) who are considering offering mortgages for property in Panama. This would only apply to US citizens (at least at this time) and would be more traditional loans to what we have in this country.
There were other positive news items which might signal we are close to the end of the strike and some insight as to why it has lasted so long in the first place.
I don't think I am revealing anything that he wouldn't want me to in saying that our developers have been naïve in how that have approached doing business in Panama (like we didn't know this?!!) . Now that RFB has teamed up with this developers group, I think they are making some great progress and help them to not fall into mistakes they have made in the past; like taking the US construction model and trying to implement it in another country!
One of my main questions, "Why has the strike lasted 8 months?" was explained that, in Panama, the model is the general contractor hires sub-contractors (which Red Frog did not do) and then when the union causes problems, the general fires the sub and hires a new one.
All in all, the conversation was a positive one, and our patience will be rewarded shortly.
Mick @ Lot 83
There were other positive news items which might signal we are close to the end of the strike and some insight as to why it has lasted so long in the first place.
I don't think I am revealing anything that he wouldn't want me to in saying that our developers have been naïve in how that have approached doing business in Panama (like we didn't know this?!!) . Now that RFB has teamed up with this developers group, I think they are making some great progress and help them to not fall into mistakes they have made in the past; like taking the US construction model and trying to implement it in another country!
One of my main questions, "Why has the strike lasted 8 months?" was explained that, in Panama, the model is the general contractor hires sub-contractors (which Red Frog did not do) and then when the union causes problems, the general fires the sub and hires a new one.
All in all, the conversation was a positive one, and our patience will be rewarded shortly.
Mick @ Lot 83
Wednesday, August 29, 2007
Lots for Sale
I noticed on the Red Frog website that in addition to Lot 13, Lots 35 46 and 69 are also for sale. Does anyone know anything about the compensation for the original owners?
I had offered Red Frog to sell my lot for what basically was a double commission with me getting my deposit back when a new deposit was put down and the rest at closing. I thought this was a win-win situation. If I closed, Red Frog would get no commission or at most a single commission if I chose to sell. I wouldn't have to go through the closing process and had a chance of getting my deposit back sooner. Red Frog's response was that we could give you back your deposit when we got a new deposit. Nothing more.
I had thought it would have been a great sales gimmick. If all of us knew we could sell our places at some profit, we would all feel safer about our investments. Selling lots does not seem to be one of Red Frog's weaknesses. The few of us that decided to sell would give Red Frog some extra money. New buyers would see how much money the original buyers were making, feeding new buyers greed that they could do it too.
My dream would be for the strike to end, villas to get completed and closed, and Red Frog decides to do something similar to my proposal. Perhaps if the strike ends, a group of us, a pre-home owners group, could convince Red Frog. It would be hard for there to be any unhappy campers. If so, they could just sell and make a good profit. Any comments?
I had offered Red Frog to sell my lot for what basically was a double commission with me getting my deposit back when a new deposit was put down and the rest at closing. I thought this was a win-win situation. If I closed, Red Frog would get no commission or at most a single commission if I chose to sell. I wouldn't have to go through the closing process and had a chance of getting my deposit back sooner. Red Frog's response was that we could give you back your deposit when we got a new deposit. Nothing more.
I had thought it would have been a great sales gimmick. If all of us knew we could sell our places at some profit, we would all feel safer about our investments. Selling lots does not seem to be one of Red Frog's weaknesses. The few of us that decided to sell would give Red Frog some extra money. New buyers would see how much money the original buyers were making, feeding new buyers greed that they could do it too.
My dream would be for the strike to end, villas to get completed and closed, and Red Frog decides to do something similar to my proposal. Perhaps if the strike ends, a group of us, a pre-home owners group, could convince Red Frog. It would be hard for there to be any unhappy campers. If so, they could just sell and make a good profit. Any comments?
Friday, August 24, 2007
An environmentalist raises the Red Frog issue!
This month's Bocas Breeze features a lead article about the disappearance of the red frogs. While not directly attacking the project itself for their demise, the author, an admitted enviromentalist, did make the assertion that man and nature can not live together.
"While at the time the cause of the declines was a mystery, we now know that many of these disappearances can be attributed to a fungal disease called chytridiomycosis, which has been spreading eastward across Panama from Costa Rica since the late 1980s. While the disease has been directly responsible for the rapid die-offs of many species, new scientific studies have shown that the disease preys more intensely on frogs that are already undergoing some form of environmental stress. For example, frogs in poor-quality habitat or highly fragmented areas show signs of stress long before the disease takes hold. And when these stressed-out frogs do become infected, they seldom recover," says the author.
Not to let her assertions go unchallenged, I responded with a letter to the editor and stated, "It seems like there is always some nature lover or environmentalist who sees humans apart from nature and not a part of it. I think you will find that the red frogs will be on Bastimentos long after most of us are gone… for one reason… Nature finds a way.
"Let me tell you a story about the water fowl we have in our area of Northern California. Environmentalists were so concerned about over development of this area that they feared the water birds would be wiped out. So in order to have man and nature co-exist peacefully, they set aside thousands of acres of wetlands as “open space” that could never be touched. What happened? These birds can often be seen feeding in the tall grass and shrubs alongside our highways and over passes. Perhaps they never got the memo which said we had preserved the wetlands for them!
"Near our house in Mill Valley there are coyotes running wild down the street along with deer, raccoons and the occasional silver fox. Of course, when our house was built, it was feared it would wipe out all the wildlife. Apparently not."
I alerted Scott Harris to the article to which he responded, "Our PR person in Bocas, Michelle Slough, will be writing a retraction but my initial response is this:
"Our whole property only accounts for 9% of the island and when done, our build out will only be on 3% of the island – not 8% as they falsely claim. Our principal build out so far has been on CATTLE FARMS where Red Frogs weren’t living anyway.
"Of course, there will still be some small areas affected, [but] they will be moved before any construction takes place. And next build out area is in the teak areas, not the jungle. In our EIS, we have been required to have many “thoroughfares” or passages for ALL the fauna.
"I wish this person would really do her research on the EIS provisions before making bad assumptions about our intentions and the project. And the study of Red Frogs was made by senior scientists over the course of several months. No telling how long or how scientific her study was or what her credentials really are besides being a frog lover. We are frog lovers too."
So are we. I guess we're just stressing them out!
"While at the time the cause of the declines was a mystery, we now know that many of these disappearances can be attributed to a fungal disease called chytridiomycosis, which has been spreading eastward across Panama from Costa Rica since the late 1980s. While the disease has been directly responsible for the rapid die-offs of many species, new scientific studies have shown that the disease preys more intensely on frogs that are already undergoing some form of environmental stress. For example, frogs in poor-quality habitat or highly fragmented areas show signs of stress long before the disease takes hold. And when these stressed-out frogs do become infected, they seldom recover," says the author.
Not to let her assertions go unchallenged, I responded with a letter to the editor and stated, "It seems like there is always some nature lover or environmentalist who sees humans apart from nature and not a part of it. I think you will find that the red frogs will be on Bastimentos long after most of us are gone… for one reason… Nature finds a way.
"Let me tell you a story about the water fowl we have in our area of Northern California. Environmentalists were so concerned about over development of this area that they feared the water birds would be wiped out. So in order to have man and nature co-exist peacefully, they set aside thousands of acres of wetlands as “open space” that could never be touched. What happened? These birds can often be seen feeding in the tall grass and shrubs alongside our highways and over passes. Perhaps they never got the memo which said we had preserved the wetlands for them!
"Near our house in Mill Valley there are coyotes running wild down the street along with deer, raccoons and the occasional silver fox. Of course, when our house was built, it was feared it would wipe out all the wildlife. Apparently not."
I alerted Scott Harris to the article to which he responded, "Our PR person in Bocas, Michelle Slough, will be writing a retraction but my initial response is this:
"Our whole property only accounts for 9% of the island and when done, our build out will only be on 3% of the island – not 8% as they falsely claim. Our principal build out so far has been on CATTLE FARMS where Red Frogs weren’t living anyway.
"Of course, there will still be some small areas affected, [but] they will be moved before any construction takes place. And next build out area is in the teak areas, not the jungle. In our EIS, we have been required to have many “thoroughfares” or passages for ALL the fauna.
"I wish this person would really do her research on the EIS provisions before making bad assumptions about our intentions and the project. And the study of Red Frogs was made by senior scientists over the course of several months. No telling how long or how scientific her study was or what her credentials really are besides being a frog lover. We are frog lovers too."
So are we. I guess we're just stressing them out!
Monday, August 20, 2007
More on the 30 day visa issue
I heard from Sam Taliaferro on Friday that September 3rd is the next time the 30 day visa issue will be on the table. Apparently he is working hard to get this law changed back. Here is what he said:
"I received a call this morning from a legislator who informed me that the 30 day visa issue will be on the agenda on September 3rd when they come back to session. He is head of the opposition party and is bringing it to the floor. We have the ruling party leader in the legislature stating they will not oppose returning it to the way it was. If they keep their word and we continue to apply pressure I believe we will achieve success." - Sam Taliaferro
"I received a call this morning from a legislator who informed me that the 30 day visa issue will be on the agenda on September 3rd when they come back to session. He is head of the opposition party and is bringing it to the floor. We have the ruling party leader in the legislature stating they will not oppose returning it to the way it was. If they keep their word and we continue to apply pressure I believe we will achieve success." - Sam Taliaferro
Blades gets it wrong... again!
This guy is dangerous to the tourism industry in Panama. Recently he published an article called, "The real estate business is not tourism by Rubén Blades" which proves he does not understand the phenomenon going on in his country.
To boost tourism in Panama, they are going to need resorts for people to stay. And who is going to build these resorts? People like us who have invested in contruction projects. So, in essence, real estate business and tourism are tied together.
For this reason, it is imperative that we make our voices heard. If you are so inclined, please drop by http://www.visitpanama.com/eng/page.php?page=contact_us and leave a note.
To boost tourism in Panama, they are going to need resorts for people to stay. And who is going to build these resorts? People like us who have invested in contruction projects. So, in essence, real estate business and tourism are tied together.
For this reason, it is imperative that we make our voices heard. If you are so inclined, please drop by http://www.visitpanama.com/eng/page.php?page=contact_us and leave a note.
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